FightPastor.com will be sponsoring Joe Brammer in his upcoming fight against Aaron Riley at UFC 114. FightPastor.com has seen its share of controversy, as has Joe. We wanted to give Joe the opportunity to discuss his faith, his former sponsorship by Hoelzer Reich, and the subsequent banning of the brand by the UFC. We also talk to him his previous UFC fight and his preparation for UFC 114.
FightPastor.com: Joe, thanks so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to talk to us. I know we’re a little more than a week out from your fight, and things have got to be getting crazy for you.
Joe Brammer: Not really crazy, I’m just pretty much focused on doing what I do, you know?
FP.com: Is it true that you are the son of preacher? Were you religious as a kid?
Joe: No. I guess some people would call us religious, but I guess it goes back to what your definition of religious is. One thing that my Dad always told us is that there’s a difference between having a relationship with God and being “religious”. Religion is a bunch of rules and stuff, like “say ten ‘Hail Marys’ and you’ll go to heaven,” and that’s not the case. Some people would probably say that we’re extremely religious, but I wouldn’t say that.
FP.com: I was brought up Catholic, so I know exactly what you mean. I’ve been in a really strict religious environment, and going to an AG church now (Canyon Creek Church), the one Brandon preaches at, a lot of people would view that as even more religious, and I see it as less so.
Joe: Exactly, you see what I mean. But most people don’t have the same perspective as me and you and wouldn’t see it that way.
FP.com: One of the questions I ask a lot of fighters is about when they’re growing up and learning martial arts at a young age, is about their parents and the different reactions they have to it. With your Dad being a preacher, how did he react to your desire to learn mixed martial arts?
Joe: At first, they didn’t want me to get into martial arts because of the whole Eastern philosophical side of things. The actual combat part they weren’t opposed to. But you know, I think a lot of people have a big misconception about martial arts, especially in the 70’s and 80’s. So they were opposed to it at first, but once I got my driver’s license, they really couldn’t stop me from going to training, so that’s what I did. But once they saw what it was, and they were educated on what it was and as a sport, they became real supportive. But it took a while. (laughs)
FP.com: When was it that you really connected with your faith? Some people, even when they’re brought up with parents who were followers of Christ, they don’t always fully embrace it right off the bat. Is that something that happened for you, or did you come into it later?
Joe: When I was little, I always went to church and stuff, and then when I turned 19 or 20, I kinda “fell off the wagon” because I didn’t really identify with it. It was just something I kind of had to do because that’s what my Dad did. I did my own thing for a while, and I came back to God through my own life experiences. You think your parents don’t know what they’re talking about, but once you get older, you realize they did. Through my experiences in my own life, I came to my own conclusions about God and everything. So no, it didn’t “take” right away. I went through my life and found out on my own about God and stuff, although my parents taught me a lot and pushed me in the right direction. But when you’re 21, you think you know everything, and you don’t.
FP.com: The fight before you got called up to the UFC, you were still 20 pounds heavy two days before your fight. How do you go about cutting that kind of weight in such a short period of time? Is it all water weight?
Joe: I cut a couple of my fingers off. (laughs) Yeah, just water weight, sauna, run … it was pretty much torture but I did it. Actually, the bad thing was that I got my body fat tested the Wednesday before and I was like 5%, and 173lbs. or something. So I really didn’t have a whole lot of water weight to lose, because I’d lifted too much weights and had gotten too muscular before that fight. I weigh 167 today (May 15th), so you don’t have to worry about that this time.
FP.com: So it was mostly muscle that you were having to drop before that fight?
Joe: Yeah, but it’s still water being retained in there. Your body is 80% or 90% water, you know. Part of the reason Muhammed Ali is the way he is is that during “The Thilla in Manilla” he lost 17lbs. in the ring. He lost so much water weight that water started to be sucked out of his brain, because he was so dehydrated. It led to what the doctor said were wrinkles in his brain, and that’s part of his condition. So there’s water in every organ of your body, and you can suck it out. It’s really unhealthy, but it’s possible.
FP.com: In your UFC debut, you were fighting Mark Bocek, and got choked out in the middle of the first round. What was the game plan going into the fight, and what went wrong? It seemed like about two minutes in, Bocek took you down and controlled the fight from there.
Joe: Well, he took me down and I got back up, and if you’ve seen the fight, there was exactly one minute left when he choked me, and I was getting back up. I turned my back as I was getting back to my feet and he choked me out while we were standing and he got my back.
But that fight, I took it on short notice, I was out of shape, I had a fractured left hand, and I cut down from 190lbs. I mean, I’m not taking anything away from [Bocek], he’s a great fighter and he beat me that night. I wasn’t prepared in any type of way for that fight. I had a three-week training camp, I can to drop from 190lbs in three weeks … I didn’t even [really] have a training camp for that fight. Everything was so fast. I got called at the last minute, I had broken my hand in my last fight, and it was fractured still. But you know, you can’t say no to the UFC.
FP.com: Would you take a fight again on short notice when you haven’t been training and you’re injured?
Joe: I usually don’t not train at all, like I was then, but my hand was injured, and I really didn’t want to go in and start punching stuff and make it worse. I was working out, going to the gym and stuff, but I wasn’t sparring or grappling. I couldn’t even finish a guillotine because it hurt my hand so much, so there really wasn’t a whole lot I could do.
Would I do it again? It would have to be a case by case thing. I don’t regret doing it at all, because now I’m in the UFC and I’m about to fight again. The first part of my goals was to get to the UFC, and the next part is to become a contender for the title, then get the title. Everybody loses, there’s never been a fighter that’s retired undefeated except for [Rocky] Marciano, and he got killed in a plane crash. Everybody takes a loss. I’m surprised that the UFC called me at all, really. If they hadn’t, I wouldn’t be here right now talking to you.
FP.com: And Dana loves it when guys step up at the last minute and take those fights on, too, so that’s got to be hard to turn down. So a few days before the fight, news started to spread that you were going to be sponsored by Hoelzer Reich, and I wanted to ask you a few questions about that. Did you or your management approach them about the sponsorship, or did they come to you?
Joe: I honestly don’t know. Here’s how it went down on my end. I was in line to see the movie 2012, and I get a text from my manager (‘cause I let him handle that stuff) and he said, “I got this company, Hoelzer Reich, and they want to sponsor you.” He said, “It’s kinda cool, they have a German theme, and you’re German.” And I said, “Cool. What are they paying,” and it was like three times more than anyone else. So I was like, OK, whatever, let’s go for it. And I went to the movie.
When I got home, I looked, and they had sponsored Mac Danzig, Donald Cerrone, Ross Pearson, and a few others. So I was like, whatever, and I didn’t really look into it too much, and then all this stuff came up about them being Nazis and stuff like that, or supposedly Nazis. I mean, that’s basically all it was. At that point, I was just trying to get ready for the fight.
FP.com: Sure.
Joe: Like when Fight Pastor sponsored me, I didn’t do every bit of research about him, either. I don’t know if he’s got some weird background or something, you know? You don’t really have time to do that.
FP.com: We’re pretty good guys. (laughs) So when you found out they were a Neo-Nazi brand, what was your reaction, coming from a Christian background? That had to bother you, knowing that your name was being associated with those guys.
Joe: Were they a Neo-Nazi brand? Was that what they were?
FP.com: Yeah, there’s been a whole lot of news stories that had come out since then; there’s music groups that they promote (Westwall) and stuff like that. You can look at their iconography and some of the other relationships they have outside of the mixed martial arts arena. The evidence is pretty clear. They do deny it, though.
Joe: Well, like I said, to me … Do I support Neo-Nazis? Of course not. Is that something that is wrong? Of course. I really didn’t know until now that that’s what they were. I’d heard people say things like that, I thought people were just offended by their clothes. But no, of course I don’t support that, at all. Regardless of that, we broke ties with them. I was like, I don’t want to be associated with these people, and we were done with them.
It’s funny, because anybody who knows me … like my roommate is black, the majority of my friends aren’t even white. So if anyone thinks that I’m a Nazi, it wouldn’t take very long to figure out that I’m not.
FP.com: To be clear, I don’t think anyone has suggested that you were a Nazi or anything like that. One of the reasons why it became a big deal was that shortly after that, the UFC banned a lot of other clothing labels from being able to sponsor fighters in the ring, Hoelzer Reich was one of them. But a lot of other ones, like One Last Round … they all got banned.
Joe: You know, what I don’t understand is that everybody acts like I was the only one to get sponsored by them. They sponsored Danzig, Pearson and Cerrone in fights in the UFC and the WEC before they ever sponsored me, you know what I mean? [Hoelzer Reich was] definitely wrong for whatever they were trying to do, but what I was surprised about is why I was [singled out]. Three weeks before I fought, Ross Pearson wore their stuff out to the ring, and I watched it live on Pay-Per-View. I just thought this was an MMA brand.
FP.com: Yeah, they sponsored a lot of guys, and I don’t know if you could say that they were preying on people’s ignorance and throwing a lot of money on them to get their brand out there …
Joe: They probably were. Honestly, nobody’s said much. There was a couple people who asked me about it, but really, nobody’s really said too much about the Hoelzer Reich thing [to me].
FP.com: You have a fight coming up with Aaron Riley at UFC 114. Some guys get a loss, and the UFC cuts them pretty quickly. They’re giving you another shot. When did you find out they wanted you back?
Joe: I talked to Joe Silva right after the last fight. I thanked him for the opportunity, and I told him, “Hey, that’s not a very good depiction of me, my skills, or who I am as a fighter.” He knew I took the fight on short notice, and he said, “No, we’ll have you back for sure.” Usually, if they’re going to cut you, they’ll do it the next day. I got back to training as soon as I could. That’s the only fight I’ve ever lost, and that was the best fighter I’ve fought, but it wasn’t a good picture of me as a fighter.
FP.com: Well, I’m really looking forward to seeing your fight against Aaron Riley, and this is going to be my first UFC fight I get to watch live. I’m gonna be there, I’ll be in the nose-bleeds, but I’ll be there cheering you on as loud as I can. I’ll see if I can sneak down a little lower and watch your fight before the main card starts.
Joe: Awesome! Yeah, usually, you can get down and get a good seat so you can see it.
FP.com: Next time we’ll see you will be at the UFC Fan Expo at our booth. All your fans can come by and get pictures and autographs. Thanks again for your time, Joe.
Joe: I’ll see you in Vegas!
Interview by Rob “SuperRob” Stevens
